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GAME: Shin Megami Tensei V


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kyokun47



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 231
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:29 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Of course, the experience isn't perfect. While SMTV made the jump to HD phenomenally, the Unity engine's flaws still rear their ugly head: stuttering and jumpiness abounds during some animations and transitions, marring the otherwise impeccable visuals.
The game was built with Unreal Engine 4 actually!

I'm very interested to play because of the great reception this entry has gotten, but it would be my first SMT game and I don't want to get my butt kicked that badly lmao. I also really don't enjoy the demon fusing system in Persona either, so knowing it's still here doesn't really inspire much in me lol.
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b-dragon



Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 464
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:49 pm Reply with quote
kyokun47 wrote:
Quote:
Of course, the experience isn't perfect. While SMTV made the jump to HD phenomenally, the Unity engine's flaws still rear their ugly head: stuttering and jumpiness abounds during some animations and transitions, marring the otherwise impeccable visuals.
The game was built with Unreal Engine 4 actually!

I'm very interested to play because of the great reception this entry has gotten, but it would be my first SMT game and I don't want to get my butt kicked that badly lmao. I also really don't enjoy the demon fusing system in Persona either, so knowing it's still here doesn't really inspire much in me lol.


I'll not speak for this game specifically, but SMT difficulty both is and isn't overhyped. It's a constant game knowledge and preparation check, with luck mainly coming in to play when you fall short in one of those areas. Or bosses. The Press Turn system Nocturne started, and has shown up in the Persona series, means that prepared players typically have fairly easy fights, and unprepared ones survive by the skin of their teeth, if at all.

Having said that, fusing demons and customizing them is typically a lot of the fun. If thats not your thing, this may not be appealing.
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DRWii



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 636
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:46 pm Reply with quote
kyokun47 wrote:
I'm very interested to play because of the great reception this entry has gotten, but it would be my first SMT game and I don't want to get my butt kicked that badly lmao. I also really don't enjoy the demon fusing system in Persona either, so knowing it's still here doesn't really inspire much in me lol.

In addition to what b-dragon wrote, there are multiple difficulty options, so even if you get your butt kicked you can make it easier.
Fusion is a pretty ubiquitous mechanic in this franchise, though. Maybe the Digital Devil Saga duology on PS2 or Tokyo Mirage Sessions on Wii U/Switch could be your cup of tea, if it's that much of a problem.
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TheBeastAR



Joined: 19 Aug 2021
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:47 pm Reply with quote
But what about the story? Is there one? Having some semblance of a story is the one thing that the mainline series has consistently struggled with. Many fans will champion its deeper themes and say it's more nuanced than other role playing games, but it's often come across as more shallow and edgy than anything else.

I'm not denying the mainline series hasn't had fun gameplay or challenge, but the lack of a compelling narrative is disappointing. Fans don't seem to mind and also seem to get very defensive when you try and bring in a legitimate criticism of the series.

Sure it'll be fine but there are things the mainline series needs to do better with. Giving a care about the characters would be a start.
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b-dragon



Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 464
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:21 pm Reply with quote
TheBeastAR wrote:
But what about the story? Is there one? Having some semblance of a story is the one thing that the mainline series has consistently struggled with. Many fans will champion its deeper themes and say it's more nuanced than other role playing games, but it's often come across as more shallow and edgy than anything else.

I'm not denying the mainline series hasn't had fun gameplay or challenge, but the lack of a compelling narrative is disappointing. Fans don't seem to mind and also seem to get very defensive when you try and bring in a legitimate criticism of the series.

Sure it'll be fine but there are things the mainline series needs to do better with. Giving a care about the characters would be a start.


I don't know that it "needs" to do better in this respect (just because a series doesn't have something you want doesn't make it bad, etc etc), but you are definitely correct that strong characters/narrative are not the focus of the series. 4 was better in this respect than Nocturne, imo, but both almost literally lost most of their characters to the thematic focus. Apocalypse tried to do yet more, but the execution was iffy and the fandom balked as I recall.

Most of the reviews I've seen indicate that 5 is better in this regard, but I still get the impression that you can expect the narrative/thematic goal to be grand and sweeping, but the characters and plot points to be unfulfilling if that's what you're expecting. It certainly won't have the level of focus on those things that the MegaTen spinoffs often have.

I'm not sure if its a legitimate criticism. Its certainly a legitimate preference, however, and not one this particular series has generally been interested in fulfilling.
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Hal14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
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Location: Heart of africa
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:31 pm Reply with quote
About the story: Most of the reviews i've seen, even the slightly mixed ones, praise the gameplay and QOL improvements, but the story and casts seem to be a bit weaker in comparison. IGN called it 'Persona without the heart' Laughing , and you can practically hear the pitchforks sharpening
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Stelman257



Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:40 pm Reply with quote
Even this review here doesn’t mention story or characters at all lmao.
It’s pretty clear it’s absolutely not the focus and never will be for the SMT games.
I like that the reviewer does have a “phenomenal voice casting” as a footnote ahaha, presumably to give the all star japanese cast any sort of tiny shoutout. Or maybe there’s a slim chance in hell they played dubbed?
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5976
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:01 pm Reply with quote
b-dragon wrote:

I'll not speak for this game specifically, but SMT difficulty both is and isn't overhyped. It's a constant game knowledge and preparation check, with luck mainly coming in to play when you fall short in one of those areas. Or bosses. The Press Turn system Nocturne started, and has shown up in the Persona series, means that prepared players typically have fairly easy fights, and unprepared ones survive by the skin of their teeth, if at all.


I’m presume that unprepared players are ones that don’t read a guide since even with me being aware of the fact that the game was somewhat challenging I still got my ass kicked in Nocturne’s early game because someone thought it’d be a funny idea to give Hama spells to enemies at such a early point in the game. And IV had it’s weird shit of demons you piss off in negotiations apparently having their anger translate to the strength of their attacks among some other bullshit.
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DRWii



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 636
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Stelman257 wrote:
I like that the reviewer does have a “phenomenal voice casting” as a footnote ahaha, presumably to give the all star japanese cast any sort of tiny shoutout. Or maybe there’s a slim chance in hell they played dubbed?

The Japanese dub is going to be free DLC when the game launches, so review copies only have the English dub.
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R. Kasahara



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 661
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:33 pm Reply with quote
HAL14 wrote:
About the story: Most of the reviews i've seen, even the slightly mixed ones, praise the gameplay and QOL improvements, but the story and casts seem to be a bit weaker in comparison. IGN called it 'Persona without the heart' Laughing , and you can practically hear the pitchforks sharpening

Well... sounds like MegaTen, for better or worse. I do hope that SMTV brings some Persona fans into the fold, though.

All I need to know is if the story/characterization is at least on the level of IV or Strange Journey. Nocturne was solid in the dungeon-crawling aspect, but I really didn't like either the story or the characters; it remains my least favorite MegaTen.

Going by this review, SMTV sounds great regardless, and I'll most likely pick it up.
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Silver Kirin



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 1126
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:44 pm Reply with quote
HAL14 wrote:
IGN called it 'Persona without the heart' Laughing , and you can practically hear the pitchforks sharpening

That quote will become the new "too much water". I've been trying to get into SMT and Persona, and looking at the fandom I don't quite understand the supposed rivalry between both series (not saying that the whole fandom thinks like that). On one hand I kind of understand how annoyed SMT fans must feel at Persona being the center of attention despite being a spin-off while the main series got sidelined, kind of what happened with The King of Fighters compared to Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting, but on the other hand some SMT fans can get a little bit elitist. Still, it's very annoying that many reviews can't judge SMT without comparing it to Persona, it's like complaining that Street Fighter isn't as fast paced as Marvel vs. Capcom. Don't know if there's some console war thing going on as well, since SMT is heavily associated with Nintendo while Persona is PlayStation.
All in all, I'm glad that SMT V is being well received, I'll try to play the previous games and Persona before trying it. I hope this game can be like Persona 5 and make the series more popular with new fans.
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Fluwm



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 894
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:52 pm Reply with quote
I wonder if it's as unbalanced as SMTIV, where the first several hours are a nightmare slog because all of the early enemies can immediately 1HKO your party until you hit level 10 or so.
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Stelman257



Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:41 pm Reply with quote
DRWii wrote:
The Japanese dub is going to be free DLC when the game launches, so review copies only have the English dub.

Well what do you know!
Silver Kirin wrote:
HAL14 wrote:
IGN called it 'Persona without the heart' Laughing , and you can practically hear the pitchforks sharpening

That quote will become the new "too much water".

No it won’t lol. Too much water came from IGN’s Oras review, a game that was much more popular than SMT, and from a score that actually felt low to fans. Not from an 8/10 review.
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TheBeastAR



Joined: 19 Aug 2021
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:59 am Reply with quote
b-dragon wrote:

Most of the reviews I've seen indicate that 5 is better in this regard, but I still get the impression that you can expect the narrative/thematic goal to be grand and sweeping, but the characters and plot points to be unfulfilling if that's what you're expecting.



I'm not even trying compare this to Persona. I have played other jrpgs and in an era when the genre has evolved to have both compelling story/characters and combat, I don't think it's unreasonable to want SMT to do the same after 30+ years. I certainly get the thematic appeal and maybe it's just me, but even the themes have come across more shallow and surface than what fans often present. It's never really felt nuanced to me, even though I do like the gameplay.

I am willing to give this one a shot, and I am very happy to see this game is getting good reviews. It's always good to this game with others, but with this franchise it's more difficult than most. I suppose it's not even just the games that irk me, but also the community around it. It's not unreasonable to want more, but it's hard to do bring that up with a community that shown itself to be very hostile and immature at the slightest criticism. The reviews with the most criticisms are still very positive, but the comments are very sarcastic and tearing the reviewers to shreds for not getting the series and generally just being defensive. The fanbase can be very much an echo chamber.
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Hal14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 674
Location: Heart of africa
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:08 am Reply with quote
@TheBeastAR

Fandoms with high difficulty, or at least perceived high difficulty, tend to have a chip on their shoulder. Some members of these fandoms really take pride in the games (supposedly) having high barriers to entry and get upset when it's compared to game with a relatively lower barrier.

But aside from that, what I'm bothered by is the "old school/ traditional" rpg label. I love rpgs, but when I see a modern game get called this it sounds like it's going to be a grind with not much to do outside of combat. And with real 'old school' games that was often a limitation of the hardware not a choice, and those games found ways to work around those limitations. I suspect that's one of the reasons why so many older rpgs have fishing minigames and casinos. But now old school gets used as a defence for being minimalistic, which is a perfectly fine approach to rpgs but i just wish it wasn't called old school.
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